Advanced and Beginner.

What's on your mind today?
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:54 pm
Suggestions
(hope you understand my bad English)

In the old worth1000, there were two competition levels Advanced and Beginner.
You have to qualify for advanced to compete there, you qualify by winning a certain number of competitions in beginners and have a winning percentage that is above, say, 30%.
I think that would raise the standard of competition entries.
which I believe means more members.
many new ones do not stay, which I believe is due to the low quality of many contributions and the boring and hostile tone that some have here. think this would change that.

Worth1000 also had a mentoring program where one in the advanced group can help one in the beginner group with a number of contributions. I think that would attract newbies who want to learn Photoshopping and they can get started faster with their shopping.
I know nothing about web design and do not know this is possible to do here.

Please comment
HoboKing
HoboKing
Shadow Disciple
Level: 10 • EXP: 2644/3000
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:36 pm
Freaking News also used to have novice and expert categories---with different contests for each. As I recall, you had to win a contest in the novice category in order to be eligible to compete in the expert category. They did away with the novice category quite a few years ago. Not sure why. The atmosphere at Freaking News is much friendlier and more congenial than it is here---and there is more of a "family" atmosphere. People compliment good entries and point out positives. Criticisms are sometimes negative--but more often just constructive. And there is no penalty for not voting in a contest that you enter. Here at PSN, the no-vote penalty causes people to vote "strategically" to enhance their own chances of winning. Since you can see your own score before voting---the tendency is to vote lower on the entries that are competing with your own. At FN, I usually abstain from voting in contests that I have entered---because it is very difficult to avoid voting strategically to enhance one's own chances of winning. Here at PSN---it's very hard to win if you don't vote because of the penalty.

I feel that comments made at PSN are almost always "strategic" as well. In other words, people comment primarily to point out flaws in others' entries rather than positives. In many cases, this is done in an attempt to get voters to lower the score they give---thus increasing the chances of winning for the one who points out the flaws. This contributes to the obvious trend towards lower and lower scores that has taken place here. Winning entries used to score in the 80's. Now they score in the 50's---and sometimes even in the 40's.

And then there is Whispering Sage. She is the single most toxic presence on this website---(and possibly the reason for Hobo King's suggestion for a "Beginner" category to quarantine her). I'm normally a very tolerant person. Well, Sage brings out the worst in me. Despite her abysmal win-loss record, she seems unable to objectively recognize that her work is inferior and regularly votes everyone else's entries into the basement with her own. Her comments are always negative and usually infuriatingly inaccurate. In her comments, she holds others to standards that she cannot herself come close to meeting. She is the reason that I enter most contests here---not so much because I want to win (I do), but because it's bad for schlock work to win. It makes this site look bad when lousy entries are displayed as winners. I'd like to see this site grow and thrive, rather than shrivel and die.

I would support Hobo King's suggestion of adding Advanced and Beginner categories---especially if it would take Whispering Sage out of the mix and encourage talented people to participate more. And I'd like to foster quality commentary that is realistic and constructive---instead of strategic and negative. I want to compete against quality work---like that of Hobo King, Vicspa, Lux ----and many others who no longer compete here. That's when a win means something. Winning against Whispering Sage means less that nothing.
LunaC
LunaC
Perspectivist+
Level: 14 • EXP: 5384/5400
Location: South Carolina, USA
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:38 pm
I agree with most everything you've said LunaC. As far as Sage, she chops like a beginner, but she's got enough wins and total chops to not be in a novice category.
Regarding FN, that place has gone way down, all the better choppers are no longer there, the choppers there now haven't got a clue on what makes a good chop. The other main problem there is "Karma" votes, you only get higher voting power when you vote high, if you don't, your karma stays at 1 while others is at 300.
And one voter with a power of 300 can change a winning entry. But most of them don't know what the f--- they're voting for anyway. Too much negativity here, but way too much fake praise there. There's gotta be a middle ground.
I quote one member at FN, who said " you people couldn't chop your way out of a wet paper bag". He's right of course but he said it when his chop did not make the top 5. lol
I think Nick (owner of this site) should get off his butt and try to do something before it all goes south. I don't know what, ...but something.
vicspa
vicspa
Raster paladin
Level: 22 • EXP: 15903/17000
Location: USA
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:35 am
I think maybe we're getting tripped up by semantics. Rather than "Beginner" or "Novice" (which Sage is NOT), maybe "Apprentice" is a better word. You can be an apprentice you entire life without advancing to become a "master". Sage is a perfect example of this. And perhaps win percentage, as Hobo King suggested, should be the determining factor. It might be difficult to reprogram the site to accommodate the change and I don't know if the site owner has any interest in revitalizing it. He built a nice site with lots of good features--but he doesn't speak up much.
LunaC
LunaC
Perspectivist+
Level: 14 • EXP: 5384/5400
Location: South Carolina, USA
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:09 pm
I almost agree with you on everything, we thought of having category based on skill level but there are not enough users to do it, at least not at the moment. For the rest I seem to understand that the problem here is not the site but the users,voting strategically and not fair is your choice, rude commenting is your choice, not accepting criticism is your choice etc... The voting system was designed to handle the situation you are complaining about, for example if an entry deserves 70 give it 70 dont be "strategic" ("strategic" is equal to unfair), who will down rate (or over rate) will lose honor and his vote after a few contests will no longer count and penalties will be applied to his own entries, so the user will be forced to vote fair, but this system works only if other users are fair. Everything turn around in to be fair, to be nice each other, teach and learn, but all this is up to you.
untexp
untexp
Bevel Crafter+
Level: 5 • EXP: 949/1200
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:54 pm
I agree Untexp, it's not the site it's the members. A couple of years ago the votes were in the 70s and 80s, and then....
Things change, and maybe they'll change back again, in the meantime I choose not to enter, and therefore I don't need to vote "strategically".
Some chops here deserve a 20 or 30 because they are that bad, commentary suggestions for improvement are mostly ignored on taken as negative comments, that's unfortunate. All Photoshop contest sites seem to be on the decline, but who knows, things can change again.
vicspa
vicspa
Raster paladin
Level: 22 • EXP: 15903/17000
Location: USA
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:28 pm
I agree with most of everyone's views except posting blame on site. A site is only as good as the users put into it. Voting does not have to be such a terrible thing. I found using vicspa's voting advice some months back has helped me tremendously. Maybe he can post that again. I have never used anything lower than a 40 because the effort to at least try, enter and compete is worth that, even for the ones who don't do a great chop but if you just copy and paste in a 5-minute chop, the most you will get from me is a 50. I am a beginner, learning from the criticism, critiques, and advice of all others, and it's helpful if you don't take it to heart. I get disappointed & frustrated every time I create a composite and someone has to tell me it doesn't exist or it's not real. Who the heck cares, art is not based on reality. The more work that is put into a chop, unique and different idea and obviously, the good ones will get a great score from me. I try to be as fair as I think. I have made voting mistakes, like giving a decent chopper a 50 when they are capable of getting an 80, it happens, the slider sometimes makes that mistake but I won't bother the creator of this site every time I screw up! It's all good, let's just get to chopping!!! I am here to learn, get better and hope to beat out all the good ones someday like vicspa, hobo king, lux(i miss seeing him around here), tubby, ligden, simba and more just can't remember. That is my goal and I am sticking with it! hahaha! Get chopping everyone and have fun!:-)
Lynnettel
Lynnettel
Perspectivist
Level: 13 • EXP: 4205/4800
Location: Connecticut
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