Number of Voters

Discuss the voting system, propose new ideas
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:45 am
I might be missing something here, being a total nube, but I'm wondering how the voting system works. Let's say a poster puts up a luke warm or pretty crap contest entry, (as I did today.... bahahaha), and it gets looked over very quickly by a voter. The voter decides to vote on four better images and omits voting on my piece of junk altogether. All fine and good -- the voter didn't like it, but essentially it was just given a zero when it was possibly worth a piddling 35 or something. Is this a fair voting scenario? Like I say, I might be missing something here. This would be an ideal way for a poster who's nose was put out of joint by a low score, of socking one back to the perpetrator without appearing aggressive at all.
Sludgepump
Sludgepump
Bevel Crafter
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Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:51 am
I understand what you mean sludge, we managed to devise and system in which the participants to a contest are obligated to vote for their opponents, but I don't see an solution for voters that are not involved in the contest, we're open to suggestions if you have any. What i think is if your entry is crappy it might get overlooked, but it's going to receive a minimum amount of votes, whereas on other sites it would simply remain voteless :thumbsup:
supak0ma
supak0ma
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Location: Ciampino
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:13 am
supak0ma wrote:I understand what you mean sludge, we managed to devise and system in which the participants to a contest are obligated to vote for their opponents, but I don't see an solution for voters that are not involved in the contest, we're open to suggestions if you have any. What i think is if your entry is crappy it might get overlooked, but it's going to receive a minimum amount of votes, whereas on other sites it would simply remain voteless :thumbsup:


we could have the same system of participants, who does not participate in the contest must vote at least 80% of the entries unless the votes are not taken into consideration by the voting system
Pelikan
Pelikan
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Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:04 am
supak0ma wrote:I understand what you mean sludge, we managed to devise and system in which the participants to a contest are obligated to vote for their opponents, but I don't see an solution for voters that are not involved in the contest, we're open to suggestions if you have any. What i think is if your entry is crappy it might get overlooked, but it's going to receive a minimum amount of votes, whereas on other sites it would simply remain voteless :thumbsup:


I'm throwing opinions around way too quickly for a poster who hasn't seen a competition close yet! :crazy: I guess, with the voting system as it is, when the population of seasoned users increases, the system can only improve and become even more fair. With that said, I wouldn't mind being faced with having to vote for 100% of the pieces though. If nothing else it might prevent a complete beginner from achieving rock bottom scores for their not-bad skills, (and it might send those happy contenders skipping to the bank to haul in mega photocoins). Is there some resistance to voting for all?
Sludgepump
Sludgepump
Bevel Crafter
Level: 4 • EXP: 804/900
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:04 pm
Your feedback is very welcome Sludgepump! I agree the system will get better the more entrants in a contest, as we stated when we opened last year, we are open to suggestions on how to improve the user experience, and willing to change the way things work for the better. We initially set a minimum votes cast on entries by participants of 80%, but if others agree, it could be set at 100%, or maybe set it to a proportional percentage depending on the number of entries, for example up to 20 entries would be 100%, then it would decrease each additional entry like 99% for 21 entries, 98% for 22 etc.
supak0ma
supak0ma
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Location: Ciampino
Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:29 pm
supak0ma wrote:Your feedback is very welcome Sludgepump...


I like your style supak0ma! You've given this voting thing a lot of thought. :grin:
Sludgepump
Sludgepump
Bevel Crafter
Level: 4 • EXP: 804/900
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:37 pm
Sludgepump wrote:
supak0ma wrote:Your feedback is very welcome Sludgepump...


I like your style supak0ma! You've given this voting thing a lot of thought. :grin:


Ha! yes, a lot of thought went into it, it's the most important part :crazy: 8)
supak0ma
supak0ma
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Location: Ciampino
Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:43 am
Supa, how does the voting and scoring work when competitors vote on each other's work? If, for instance, four are running and I vote on the three others, am I given an automatic average of my own given scores at this time or am I left with no score for myself? (With the thinking that all competitors will have a similar “hole” in the scoring for themselves). I'm wrestling with voter A clustering a typical low score, while voter B votes a typically high cluster; voter B loses out more when he votes even though all voters were being fair. Just curious how you solved this. (Hope that all came out as English and not some spew of words... lol). :shocked:
Sludgepump
Sludgepump
Bevel Crafter
Level: 4 • EXP: 804/900
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:16 pm
Sludgepump wrote:Supa, how does the voting and scoring work when competitors vote on each other's work? If, for instance, four are running and I vote on the three others, am I given an automatic average of my own given scores at this time or am I left with no score for myself? (With the thinking that all competitors will have a similar “hole” in the scoring for themselves). I'm wrestling with voter A clustering a typical low score, while voter B votes a typically high cluster; voter B loses out more when he votes even though all voters were being fair. Just curious how you solved this. (Hope that all came out as English and not some spew of words... lol). :shocked:


Let's see if i understood what you mean, if you got no votes your score is 0. That's why one won't reach full score if he/she doesn't vote for others.
supak0ma
supak0ma
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Location: Ciampino
Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:07 pm
Let me put it another way: Wondering if you have an algorythm that prevents unfairness to contestants scores based on their voting tendencies:

(Four contestants total)
Voter A votes 75, 80 and 85
Voter B votes 45, 50 and 55

Both voters are being fair and both are within a range to keep their honour points. Depending on how you process these votes, one contestant may have an advantage.

Does voter A lose points because he clusters votes in a higher range? A's median vote was 80 and B's median was 50. Essentially, voter A gives high votes to all except himself and B gives low votes to all except himself. There's a discrepancy there unless you have an algorythm that automatically awards an average vote to the voter. ie. A votes 75, 80 and 85 and automatically receives an average of 80 for himself based on his voting style. This could be quite a problem if there are few voters.

Just thinking out loud here Nick. Not complaining or hoping you'll change anything... Just sharing some thoughts. :grin 2:
Sludgepump
Sludgepump
Bevel Crafter
Level: 4 • EXP: 804/900
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:22 pm
Sludgepump wrote:Let me put it another way: Wondering if you have an algorythm that prevents unfairness to contestants scores based on their voting tendencies:

(Four contestants total)
Voter A votes 75, 80 and 85
Voter B votes 45, 50 and 55

Both voters are being fair and both are within a range to keep their honour points. Depending on how you process these votes, one contestant may have an advantage.

Does voter A lose points because he clusters votes in a higher range? A's median vote was 80 and B's median was 50. Essentially, voter A gives high votes to all except himself and B gives low votes to all except himself. There's a discrepancy there unless you have an algorythm that automatically awards an average vote to the voter. ie. A votes 75, 80 and 85 and automatically receives an average of 80 for himself based on his voting style. This could be quite a problem if there are few voters.

Just thinking out loud here Nick. Not complaining or hoping you'll change anything... Just sharing some thoughts. :grin 2:


Sorry for the late reply. What you are proposing would open other problematic scenarios, with everyone voting too high to get their average up, the competition would be killed imo. What can be done is work on the honour range, i would be for reducing it to +-15 pts from the actual +-20, but then you risk transforming the voting process into a guessing game if you reduce it further. Your thoughts are very welcome as stated before :thumbsup:
supak0ma
supak0ma
Perspectivist++
Level: 15 • EXP: 5962/6000
Location: Ciampino
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:29 pm
supak0ma wrote: Sorry for the late reply. What you are proposing would open other problematic scenarios, with everyone voting too high to get their average up, the competition would be killed imo. What can be done is work on the honour range, i would be for reducing it to +-15 pts from the actual +-20, but then you risk transforming the voting process into a guessing game if you reduce it further. Your thoughts are very welcome as stated before :thumbsup:


Yes, I see what you mean. There are a few scenarios that could have a numbing effect on the competition. I'm sure this looks very different from the driver's seat too. (It's easy as hell to sit back and make suggestions...lol). I like your idea to tighten up the +- honour range. Anything that trains voters to sharpen their voting accuracy is a good thing and +-15 isn't scary enough to reduce voting to any measurable degree. I've only seen a month's worth of new voters, but from what I've seen so far the "training period" is really essential. Tightening up a small amount sounds good!

I'm sure that I dinged someone a month ago with the voting slider. I hadn't fully grasped the "turn the number red" lock thing and reduced the vote accidentally as I moused left to hit the "vote" button. I don't use the sliding functionality of this scale at all and generally I just click on the line until I see a red score. (I've never viewed the site on a tablet or phone, so I don't know if the slider is intended for these users). Anyway, just a bit of feedback; I think new voters would be less prone to screw up if not presented with a slider. Just a scale that looks like it currently looks that doesn't adjust as you hover, but responds to clicks. (Maybe put the "vote" button on the right of the slider FOR JUST MY ENTRIES, so new voters slide the values up...lol).

No reply necessary Nick. I don't want to add to your load here. Just sharing ideas. I really like your site! It looks great and functions really well. Would seriously love to acquire your programming skills! :grin 2:
Sludgepump
Sludgepump
Bevel Crafter
Level: 4 • EXP: 804/900
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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